Support

Admin Tools

#30851 Extensions: Discover -> FOF30

Posted in ‘Admin Tools for Joomla! 4 & 5’
This is a public ticket

Everybody will be able to see its contents. Do not include usernames, passwords or any other sensitive information.

Environment Information

Joomla! version
n/a
PHP version
n/a
Admin Tools version
n/a

Latest post by jjst135 on Wednesday, 30 January 2019 04:12 CST

jjst135
When we go to 'Extenions'-> 'Discover' we notice the FOF30 library is showing. Version 3.3.6. On the site version 3.3.9 is installed.

Any thought on why this shows up? What can we do about it?

tampe125
Akeeba Staff
Hello,

that's pretty strange.
Can you please do a quick search for FOF in the installed extensions? What's the package type reported by Joomla?

Davide Tampellini

Developer and Support Staff

๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡นItalian: native ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡งEnglish: good โ€ข ๐Ÿ• My time zone is Europe / Rome (UTC +1)
Please keep in mind my timezone and cultural differences when reading my replies. Thank you!

jjst135
file_fof30 | 3.4.0 (2019-01-07)
FOF | 2.4.3 (2015-04-22)
FOF30 | 3.3.9 (2018-12-07)

nicholas
Akeeba Staff
Manager
Since FOF 3.4.0 the package type for FOF has been changed from "library" to "file". This was necessary to prevent a very serious Joomla! bug when installing an older version of FOF: Joomla! uninstalls the library, then installs whichever version you gave it without asking any more questions. This meant that people would downgrade FOF by accident, e.g. by installing an older version of our software, with detrimental results in the functionality of the site.

The downside to that is that Joomla! won't really let you get rid of the older package that has a different package type. The only thing we can do is remove the update site. We cannot touch the extension record because that would break the assets table which is used for ACLs over the entire site. Moreover, Joomla! caches the old XML manifest of the "library" type extension and reports it whenever you use the Discover feature.

The only way around that is to completely uninstall FOF and the reinstall it. However, you cannot do that when there are extensions relying on it. So you'd have to uninstall Akeeba Backup and Admin Tools, losing their configuration settings (and your backup records). Between that and the very mild annoyance of having multiple records for FOF I chose the latter.

Ideally, Joomla! should fix its installer so it doesn't do utterly insane things like completely uninstalling(!!!) a library before it even considers whether it's an upgrade or downgrade. Ugh. The funny thing is that this bug is known since 2015 and was introduced at least as early as 2010. In 2015 there was a discussion about fixing it, the consensus was "let's kick the can down this road to Joomla! 4" and then absolutely nothing happened. In fact, Joomla! 4 still has the same unfixed bug. So all we can do is say sorry, we are trying to do things the Joomla! way (otherwise they'd kick us out of the Joomla! Extensions Directory) so you'll have to put up with the Joomla! issues we are not allowed to solve. It sucks for us more than it sucks for you, trust me on that...

Nicholas K. Dionysopoulos

Lead Developer and Director

๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ทGreek: native ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡งEnglish: excellent ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ทFrench: basic โ€ข ๐Ÿ• My time zone is Europe / Athens
Please keep in mind my timezone and cultural differences when reading my replies. Thank you!

jjst135
Ok, thanks for sharing this. I agree this is not more then a mild annoyance on our side. The annoyance on your side seems to be a bit bigger ;-) Maybe I could post an issue on the Joomla Github saying we encountered this and that you are be able / allowed to fix this because of a bug? Who know someone might pick it up and get this bug fixed?

nicholas
Akeeba Staff
Manager
In all honestly, I think it's futile. This issue has been reported a number of times. The "resolution" is that it will be fixed in a major version, i.e. Joomla! 4. Unfortunately, this doesn't seem likely. You can of course report this issue but you will be told one of the following:

  • It's the expected behavior (even though it's stupid).
  • It will be fixed in Joomla! 4 (even through it probably won't).
  • It's the developer's problem for using the "wrong" extension type (files vs library), i.e. they don't understand the problem and shift the blame to the affected party.
  • You should have uninstalled the library extension before installing the file extension (never mind that this causes data loss; again they'd shift the blame to the affected party).


If you really want to file a bug report, do so. Just please don't drag me into it. Between 2009 and 2015 I was trying really hard to send patches to issues I encountered. I'd spend 5' fixing the code and 25 days debating the fix, typically unsuccessfully. I have a family now. I have neither the time nor the energy to argue with random strangers on the Internet about self-evident things.

Nicholas K. Dionysopoulos

Lead Developer and Director

๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ทGreek: native ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡งEnglish: excellent ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ทFrench: basic โ€ข ๐Ÿ• My time zone is Europe / Athens
Please keep in mind my timezone and cultural differences when reading my replies. Thank you!

jjst135
OK, I'll think about it. And I'll try not to drag you in to this ;-)

It seems to me that more people will be confronted with this notice in the 'discover' section of the extension manager. Maybe that will cause some more questions and attention from Joomla CMS developers who can and want to (and are allowed to...) solve this issue. Before this the whole FOF 'thing' was more or less hidden from normal CMS backend users. Now this 'discover' notice is more visible.

Anyway, we'll just ignore it for now and maybe I will post an issue on GitHub. Joomla 4 would be a good moment to get this sorted out...

Thanks for your replies.

Support Information

Working hours: We are open Monday to Friday, 9am to 7pm Cyprus timezone (EET / EEST). Support is provided by the same developers writing the software, all of which live in Europe. You can still file tickets outside of our working hours, but we cannot respond to them until we're back at the office.

Support policy: We would like to kindly inform you that when using our support you have already agreed to the Support Policy which is part of our Terms of Service. Thank you for your understanding and for helping us help you!